I was so glad to see Julep posting today—I love when Daddy Rabbit is active. That stinks about your nice spa gift—I know Mr. Julep was really trying to give you a gift that was all about you, but a little bit of research, and, as you said, buy-in from the kids, would have been nice here. I know it’s not really about the gift, but about the thought and effort behind it. At least nothing could be worse than the dish brush and laundry soap, so the only way to go from there is up. Why do husbands make these missteps? Bless their hearts. At least you are teaching your kids the art of thoughtful gift-giving.
Husband: Alright, so what’s up?
MIL: Well, I believe…I think that when the girls are gone…there’s got be a truce to this thing.
Husband: I agree.
MIL: And while the girls are gone to camp, we need to go for some counseling.
Husband: I don’t disagree. I think that’s…
MIL: She has…
FIL: How does she feel about this?
MIL: Did you tell her that—
Husband: What?
MIL: That you want to go to counseling.
Husband: I said, I think there’s a po—first of all I said I was going to suggest counseling if you didn’t, and then I said there’s a chance maybe they would suggest counseling, and I think it’s a good idea.
FIL: What do you think happened to create this animosity?
Husband: I think, just like you said, you’ve got fifteen years of stuff there’s a lot that’s built up with her, I think—
MIL: But!
Husband: Stop. Are you going to let me talk?
MIL: Finish. Go ahead.
Husband: I mean, you have stuff that’s build up. I know she has stuff that’s built up. I mean, at the field hockey games, I know she was not warm and—
MIL: Ya think?
Husband: —Cozy. Because, in part, like she had been waiting on me to talk with you all, and I hadn’t done it yet. But I said the thing about how, you know Mel and Twinkle’s mother weren’t close, and you didn’t think she ever grew up in part of a family that did things with the extended family. And that’s just not true. Like, she would go to the pool all the time—
MIL: Who would?
Husband: Twinkle and her mom would go to the pool with her cousins J and M. Like every day of the summer.
MIL: Not Mel. J and M.
Husband: Where did you hear? Where did you hear that Mel and Twinkle’s mother weren’t close? Like I could sort of…tell me…like, where did you hear it?
MIL: I just know from Twinkle’s grandmother. From what she would say, and other things…
Husband: Wait. ok I mean. I wasn’t…
MIL: So.. you know…she
Husband: Yeah. Like she thinks, like Twinkle’s grandmother. Every interaction I had with Twinkle’s grandmother and Mel and Twinkle, she would talk about how much she loved both of them, and considered them like daughters.
MIL: I’m not saying that at all. Twinkle’s mother…did not go out of her way to make contact or do things with Mel. I’m not talking about Twinkle’s grandmother’s relationship with the two of them.
Husband: The only thing I can think that Twinkle’s mother complained about with Mel was when Twinkle’s mother was basically taking care of Twinkle’s grandmother, and Twinkle’s grandmother moved in, that Twinkle’s uncle and Mel didn’t help much, and so maybe she was upset about that. But, like, Twinkle has always wanted to be part of our family and be included. If she feels like, I said on the phone the other day, like, there are things, and I’m sure we can get into it if we go to counseling, like every family event, she brings a dish, she helps set up, she does whatever. Here she’s asked repeatedly to set up for Passover or to help, you know, you ask her to bring flowers or whatever to certain things, and then you’ll do it on your own. ‘Cause…and maybe it’s because she doesn’t do it quickly enough, and you think it’s not going to get done, and you operate on a different timeline…
MIL: That first of all she does NOT volunteer. This year I had to ASK her to bring a dish she did NOT say, “Is there anything I can do for Passover?”
Husband: Because she’s used to you saying no, as far as setting up.
MIL: S—
Husband: And I guess she assumes that she’ll bring a veggie dish.
MIL: From the day you all got married it was her family, your family. Her friends, your friends. That’s not the way…
Husband: What do you mean?
MIL: That’s the way she phrases things. Even when you all would get toge—“Oh Daddy’s friends are coming into town this weekend and that’s what we’re doing," or “I’m going out with mommy’s friends,” or “That’s my family or that’s Daddy’s family.”
Husband: Well that is more specific than saying we’re going out with family. I don’t know. Like yes…
MIL: (authoritatively) You know—
Husband: There are two different sides. Like I have my friends, she has her girlfriends, and we have couples friends. Like she would say S and T were our friends she wouldn’t say they’re only—
MIL: Can you find any other examples of that?
Husband: J and M. A and A. You know I mean, I would say that the people I’m more acquaintances with are still our friends, like the husbands are not Twinkle’s friends. They’re our friends.
MIL: The drinking buddies.
Husband: Well I mean I don’t drink that much but if she wants to go drink and, like, that’s fine…
MIL: S, that’s college stuff.
Husband: No.
MIL: Really…
Husband: No, but regardless…
MIL: When New Years Eve rolls over into New Years Day for a drunken brunch, that’s college stuff. (bitter laughter)
Husband: But it can also be adults and kids, like…
MIL: That’s family. No that is a family day. It is not the continuation of a drunken evening.
Husband: OK. So here’s another, so that might be how you perceive it, and we can get into this in therapy. And you know I love you, so don’t take this the wrong way, at all, but if people don’t do things the way you would do them, I don’t think you accept them. You don’t like it. you don’t that think it’s right. So…
MIL: I think the she drinks every night. EVERY NIGHT.
Husband: Not, no…most nights, but…
MIL: Six out of seven some weeks? Seven out of seven most weeks. Regardless of that…
Husband: Regardless, if we’re trying to get to a place where it can be a good relationship, like, you should understand, in her mind, and from what I’ve seen, like, she wants to be included. And you, and, just, like, so you have things I’m sure you would want her to do which can be discussed in therapy.
MIL: In FIFTEEN YEARS, she has invited us or me to lunch ONE TIME. When we met you all up at [Indian brunch place] that is the only time she has ever, EVER invited me. When the girls are off for school and she’s getting a bite to eat with…
Husband: (exasperated) I can’t keep track. I’m not disp- I’m not saying that’s not right but I don’t know. I can’t, I don’t know. I mean don’t keep track of who invites who to lunch. I mean how often do I invite Dad to lunch? Dad invites me when he wants to go to lunch most of the time.
FIL: I think we have reached out on a lot of occasions—
MIL: From the very beginning!
FIL: Since day one, and without reciprocation, and we don’t have to have thank you for everything, but I think it would be nice to be appreciated.
Husband: I know. And I’ve talked with her about that. I mean I have seen her thank you in person, and by text. I thought the thing she said about the Chinese porcelain was really nice,
MIL: That was fine and I commented on that.
Husband: I know. And that was nice too. And I thought that was good.
FIL: unintelligble
Husband: Then yeah I’m not going to get nitpicky…
FIL: Well let’s get nitpicky.
Husband: So the text that she sent about St. Louis after all after those two nice texts where she said something along the lines of, “You know, I really miss my kids when they’re gone for camp, and it’s a tough time to go to St Louis, and I didn’t know they were going to go to St Louis—?”
MIL: But you did!—
Husband: I knew.
MIL: Weeks ago.
Husband: I knew.
MIL: OK.
Husband: I knew. But that’s on me. That’s not on her.
MIL: OK.
Husband: And when she agreed to the days, she didn’t know it was an out-of-town trip. So she had to get comfortable. And her agreeing to go to St Louis was her way of saying, “OK, like, I know you all want to take them. I want them to go but I miss them, and so it’s OK.”
FIL: We go three out of 365 days.
Husband: It doesn’t matter. In her mind…
FIL: They’re going to camp for a month.
Husband: Yeah.
FIL: Is she going to go to camp with them also?
MIL: So I texted. She said—
Husband: Well that’s the problem. The problem is that when they’re gone for four weeks out of the summer, and there are only two weeks before they leave, I can understand her wanting to—
FIL: You’re coming straight back from Chicago with them for—
MIL: Even! Even—
FIL: —a weekend or whatever.
MIL: Even at that—
Husband: Because she’s with them!
MIL: I texted you two days ago and said, “OK—“
Husband: I know…about what do we want to do.
MIL: “—Do you want to go to the arch?”
Husband: I know, I know, but part of that is me not reaching out to have this conversation, like…
MIL: With her?
Husband: No. With you all.
FIL: What does it take to say, “Are you going on the arch?”
Husband: Because she is reluctant for them to go because—
MIL: I thought we were all going!
Husband: We said we were all going and then there was no response to that text.
MIL: (exasperated) I te!— OK.
Husband: But I like the idea of family counseling. I think that’s a good idea. I mean, I don’t know where we do it. I don’t know how often we do it…
MIL: Oh, I’ve reached out. Don’t worry.
Husband: That doesn’t mean that’s where we’re going. (laughter) But I mean we can listen to different options and see what to do. But I know you feel like you’re not appreciated and that she doesn’t thank you, but I’ve seen her…Look. We have a lot to work through.
MIL: It’s not even thank you, S. It’s posts like the one from last night.
Husband: Why do you think that came up? Because of what I said about her family that you said—
MIL: And—
Husband: I have to—
MIL: You don’t think that she could say, “I’m grateful to be in a…nother family who is supportive.”?
Husband: I think she would if, but I don’t, but look, I don’t think she feels it right now. Now I think we can get to that point—
FIL: How about in 3000 posts—
MIL: 3200 posts. There is not ONE mention of us, anything we have ever done with those children.
Husband: (exasperated) I cannot I…I…I…
MIL: You want me to show you? Cause I’ve gone though ‘em.
Husband: Well that’s a problem! (laughter) I know that there are pictures of you from family events, and like spring programs, and whatever else we might have done where you’re included in the post. I mean, I don’t know about the thanks or the appreciation, and if I had time in my life, maybe I could go back and look at every post.
MIL: I’ve looked for you.
Husband: Well thanks. (laughter) There are plenty of opportunities for you to hear her out, and for us to hear you out, with a counselor. But again, like, I think it all sort of…this all came about the most recent episode because of that text about wanting to be talked to directly when you want to schedule things, and I know that you reached out to Eldest and told her to reach out to Twinkle—
FIL: She’s 15 years old. You need to go through her mommy to ask?
Husband: Yes! because she—because Twinkle needs to know where—
FIL: (sarcastically) She needs to clear that with her mom.
Husband: No like back when we were—
MIL: All she had to say was—
Husband: All I’m saying, “Hey I want to take Eldest wherever. Like is that alright?”
FIL: She’s 15 years old.
MIL: (unintelligible)
Husband: If she doesn’t do it, which there are plenty of things she forgets to tell us until the day of, when she wants to do them, then we’re scrambling. Cause we have three of them, none of which can drive.
MIL: And a response to that would have been “Hey, MIL, I didn’t know Eldest reached out to you to take her shopping. Uh. Could you let me know next time?” (mocking) “I am their mother! I—Thugh Thugh Thugh Thugh!” Come ON. How do you think that made me FEEL?
Husband: I understand that it bothered you, and made you sad, and whatever else. I didn’t think, the way I read the text, it wasn’t harsh. In my mind. But I know you come at it looking at it from a different way. But what happened after the text where you basically, like, I know you said Dad had plans, and then it was whatever else, and, like, you went, we went like three weeks where nothing was talked about but we weren’t invited to anything and I had to reach out to you three weeks later to clear the air. I wish—
MIL: When do you reach out to us?
Husband: I did three weeks ago.
MIL: If I didn’t text you—
Husband: No, No, No.
MIL: If I didn’t text you on Thursday to see if you were coming on Friday, we would not hear from you from weeks at a time.
Husband: That’s not true. I would reach out, but I’m not going to invite myself—
MIL: You mean when we’re laying dead?
Husband: No, like I’m, I’m not—
MIL: For several days? And your sister calls and says, “Have you checked on mom and dad recently?”
Husband: I don’t think that’s an issue. And, by the way, let’s not forget that she’s six hours away, so—
MIL: That’s ok. I’m if something happens to Dad, I’m moving to Memphis.
Husband: You’re not moving to Memphis.
MIL: Yes I am, too, cause you’d let me lay [sic] here forever and she’d feed me arsenic.
Husband: First of all, that’s not fair. She would not feed you arsenic.
FIL: She might want to.
Husband: Maybe. But let’s hope the counseling works.
FIL: So where’s your, where’s your Harvard mediator skills?
Husband: This is it. Like, this is, but I can’t mediate…I’m not mediating between the two of you.
MIL: Do you EVER speak up for us? For me?
Husband: Yeah. I’m sure I do. Like, I know how much you do for the kids. She knows how much you do for them, and that the kids like it, and I’m going to make sure. And she’s said repeatedly she’s not trying to keep you from having a relationship with the kids. She wants us to all be one big happy family. Like I have stuck up for you in certain situations. I’m sure—
MIL: Oh! (bitter laughter)
Husband: And I can tell you like, I mean…
MIL: Let me ask you just one question.
Husband: Do you think St. Louis would happen? At all? If I weren’t pushing for St. Louis?
MIL: Let me—
Husband: No, no. Seriously. Do you think, I…don’t you think I want them to be able to go with you?
FIL: I think you do. I don’t think she does.
Husband: OK! Because…but I’m sticking up for you, and trying to, you know, push that, but I am sure I have stood up for you more than you realize. And I’m standing up for her, too.
MIL: Let me ask you this.
Husband: I have been, I have, first of all, she’s my wife, and I do want to stand up for her. But I don’t want the relationship to be the way it is with you all.
MIL: Let me ask you this. In your entire life with all of your friends, all of the people we’ve ever had, with your friends texting me “Happy Mothers Day” on Mothers Day.
Husband: I know Darren…
MIL: Does it not indicate to you that there’s one person that I can’t quite get seem to…be…a nice person?
Husband: It’s a totally different relationship. Like, look, at the end of the day, I’m only married to her. I know she’s not what you wanted for me or expected me to do, and I know that’s hard. Darren is not my wife, and of course he’s going to say Happy Mothers Day. And I know that the friends that you invite, it’s like, super generous and they love you. Like, it’s a great relationship. It’s a different relationship with Twinkle.
MIL: Because I reach out and try to do things, and give you all things, and…
Husband: Look you’ve been super generous, and I thank, I always thank you for what you’ve one and what you continue to do.
MIL: This all goes back to showing respect to you and being a partner in what goes on. She cannot be a Pollyanna and stick her head in the same about what it is costing to do some of those things. Now I know she doesn’t spend beaucoup of money on clothes. I know that you all drive schleppy looking cars…
Husband: Hey—
MIL: I get all that…
Husband: Our cars are not schleppy. Come on…
MIL: So explain to me why—
Husband: But again, like,
MIL: I understand that’s between you all. Do you think it’s not disrespectful—
Husband: What time is it?
MIL: That’s the washing machine.
Husband: I know but what time is it?
MIL: Ten after three. Do you not think it’s disrespectful to you when she has a birthday party for one of the kids, and she makes this beautiful charcuterie board…
Husband: Yeah.
MIL: With salami mixed in with the cheese.
Husband: I don’t. Is it—
MIL: It doesn’t bother you?
Husband: I—
MIL: It’s disrespectful to your religion, S. And to you.
Husband: I don’t see it that way. I mean I’m not going to eat it…
FIL: It happened multiple times.
Husband: Who else? Can? I don’t even remember what birthday that might have been, but again…
MIL: If it doesn’t bother you, then that’s fine .
Husband: Look I’m not going to eat it. Do I like it? No. Like, she knows I don’t love it, but there are certain things…
MIL: But she does it anyway.
Husband: There are certain things that I can live with. It’s not like she’s serving, you know, bacon in the morning…
MIL: Well that might be the next step, with the Christmas tree…
Husband: Well you know again—
FIL: When did that happen?
Husband: That’s something between us. Like, I don’t love it, but there’s certain things you do for…
MIL: (to FIL) ‘Cause she said her Dad needed a Christmas tree now that her mother’s gone.
Husband: OK that’s between US. I might not like it, and I don’t like it. She knows I don’t like it, but as a couple, I will live with it because I’m confident that our girls…Eldest wears a chai, like she’s looking forward to Israel, she loves, they all love Jewish summer camp…
MIL: But don’t you think that—
Husband: They know who thy are, and that’s what matters.
MIL: I understand that. And I’m thrilled for that.
Husband: That’s what matters. If it helps Twinkle. Or even if it helps Twinkle’s dad deal with the loss of his wife, like, to me I can live with a tree that I don’t care about or don’t believe in.
MIL: Well that’s fine…
Husband: But I don’t love it, but again…
MIL: So should she be choosing her DAD over what she knows is uncomfortable for you?
Husband: I mean, do you think—
MIL: No, I’m…
Husband: Again, I’m saying this with the preface of don’t get too upset. How is that different than…
MIL: unintelligible
Husband: Like, should I choose, like choose you over her, like…
MIL: I don’t expect you to do that. She’s your wife and I understand that. You’ve raised three wonderful girls. But I question…you know she SPEWS stuff on social media, and things I see her saying to the girls, that I think she thinks is cute. Like that whole thing with [former school]. Putting all that crap up…
Husband: That was…
MIL: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I understand you think she was upset about her mom. And I…regardless. It should never have been up there. But. Here’s the result of that. Middle will say to you if you say something about [former school], “Well that really wasn’t a school.” You don’t say that to a kid where you have supported and sent them to that school, and it was a great school for 95% of the time it was there. You don’t tell a child that.
Husband: Ok. That. I might not tell a child that.
MIL: You think that’s ok to say to Middle?
Husband: I don’t think it’s OK, but I don’t think it’s, I don’t think its your, like, if you accept the idea that we’re going to be a happy extended family that just loves each other… relatively unconditionally, it shouldn’t change the way you treat her, or, and she, we should all treat each other better.
FIL: That’s what’s wrong with social media.
Husband: Yeah like I mean. And [former school], by the way, goes way deeper than you probably will ever know—
MIL: HOW—
Husband: No, no, no. You have no idea what has happened with that. And I’m not going to get into it, but, she is truly hurt by what happened with her. And, and again I don’t like badmouthing anybody, really, to anybody else, unless they truly deserve it. But not, I wouldn’t, I don’t badmouth [former school], but I understand why she does. And I don’t, she knows that I don’t like it being done with the kids, and I don’t like it being done on social media, and she has’t posted anything about [former school] in…I don’t know…a…while.
MIL: Well for Middle to say that to me. It’s WRONG.
Husband: OK. But that’s, that’s, that shouldn’t affect how you think of her, or treat her. Like you can think it’s wrong. Like you don’t have to think it’s right, or everything either one of us does is right, but it shouldn’t change being open and friendly and inclusive. And I know it goes b—
MIL: And you don’t think I’m open, friendly, and inclusive to her?
Husband: I’m not saying you’re not at times, and I think you’ve tried a lot, but like, I mean I think that what I want to do is, again, get to St Louis. You know. Enjoy St Louis and then do the therapy. But—
MIL: That’s fine.
Husband: You know I think.
MIL: But I need to know if you all are going up in the arch or not. From two days ago.
Husband: I understand. It’s, yes, I know that’s more specific. I know that it she thought she had opened up and gotten no response for two days about going together.
MIL: It was one day.
Husband: No, it was, like, in the morning and then it was Friday night when you responded. It was 12:20 a.m. on Thursday and then you responded Friday night at like 8 o’clock. And she, I mean that was a more emotional text than, “Are you going to the arch?”. Although I know you have to plan it. So let me talk to her. I don’t know if she wants to go on the arch. I’ve already been in the arch in the last five years. I really want to, I don’t know, I mean there are certain things that I want to do that don’t require tickets, but let me talk to—
MIL: Such as?
Husband: I want Eldest to go to Wash U’s campus and walk around. I want to go to the barbecue place I went to with my college guy friends near Wash U’s campus. Now I don’t know what S and E and SIL will eat there, but dad would like it.
FIL: Where?
Husband: It’s a bbq place with wings and brisket.
FIL: I think I’ve been there.
MIL: You need to—
FIL: Did we go there with Eldest? In St. Louis, across from the theatre?
MIL: Oh we might have.
Husband: Is it by Wash U?
FIL. Close.
Husband: I might have been; I don’t remember the name of it. But again we just need, we need a more constructive way to get past some of the issues.
MIL: I agree.
Husband: Instead of freezing people out or whatever it is.
MIL: You know just an FYI.
Husband: Yeah?
MIL: After we had the intruder in the building…
Husband: Yeah?
MIL: She sends two texts right as religious school is starting, hammering with questions. She’s THE ONLY one who questioned my integrity or my handling. Everybody else emailed and said thank you so much for handling it (bitter lighter) the way it was, and it’s like, why didn’t she do that at night when I can answer, not at 4:20 when the kids are supposed to be showing up at the front door?
MIL: Because she was worried about whether they should go that day, like…
MIL: And she wasn’t worried the night before? When I could have answered?
Husband: I don’t remember the timeline. I don’t remember the timeline. I do think, I mean it’s a weird situation at Hebrew School. Like that the guy got in the back door, and that the, like, I don’t think you can underestimate the concern that people have about gun violence in schools, especially a Jewish place.
MIL: I…I…I…
FIL: You know what? He didn’t get in.
MIL: Yes he did.
Husband: He did get in.
MIL: Of course he did.
FIL: I thought y’all did not let him in.
MIL: Our teachers didn’t.
Husband: He had a key.
MIL: He forgot his scan card. And he wanted them to let him in the door, and nobody would let him in. He had his hard key that he went around and used at the maintenance entrance.
Husband: Right, so…
MIL: But we did not…
Husband: I think her concern is how were we ensuring that that doesn’t happen again.
MIL: You do not think that that’s a concern of mine constantly that I have, with my own grandchildren there? (bitter laugher) That I would not take every precaution? The precaution was to lock down until I knew what the hell was going on.
Husband: Yeah, and that’s fine.
MIL: And it happens that we’re moving to [different location], so there will not be all of these other people in the building. But the point I’m making is I can’t stop…
Husband: Yeah I get it. I don’t know why it wasn’t done the night before. When, I don’t remember when you sent the email, or the text, or however it went out. I don’t know, but she’s scared to death of, you know, the gun violence all around.
MIL: As everyone is, but…
FIL: Everybody is.
MIL: [Their school] is pretty damn vulnerable.
Husband: No.
MIL: Yeah they are.
Husband: You need…
MIL: I’ve had kids let us in the door there.
Husband: Ok, I think you look relatively safe. Maybe. (to FIL) I mean you might be carrying I don’t know.
FIL: I’m thinking about it.
Husband: I think you should. I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world. I mean I’ve thought about gettin a gun but I don’t want it around the kids so…Look, I think, I think, we need to just come at it with the best of intentions, not think the worst of everybody, and try to work through this shit. I know you’ve got stuff and I know she’s got stuff and dad and I can be along for the ride (laughter)
FIL: We’ve all got stuff.
Husband: Right, but I don’t think . But then…
MIL: PLEASE
FIL: But she she hasn’t been as appreciative or show much respect for everything we do.
Husband. OK. Some of which she might not know, and some of which, OK, she could be better at doing on social media. Does she not thank you in person whenever you do something? Is she not open and friendly most of the time?
MIL: You know…when we…
FIL: No…
MIL: When we have…
FIL: Mom takes them to get their nails and hair done, whatever, takes them for the day…
Husband: Right…
FIL: And the next post that comes out is, “What a great day playing soccer against whoever. The cousins and it’s such a wonderful…
MIL: It wasn’t even. You know when E and S were in, and we did we had a mini camp with the two girls, we did that whole cooking thing, they spent the night here, they spent the night there, there was not ONE thank you, this was great at [grandparents’], Oh but MEL’S…. OHHHHHHH!!!”
Husband: She didn’t thank—
MIL: That was…
Husband: —you in person?
MIL: That was just…
Husband: She didn’t, well in part it’s because it’s the first time they’ve done it with Mel, but it also shows that her extended family does do stuff. You’re not thanked publicly and Mel is.
MIL: Or somebody else is.
Husband: OK.
MIL: You know, God forbid, when she does—or if she does Middle’s—cause I know she told you she wasn’t doing another bat mitzvah like that cause it was too much work, right? Eldest’s?
Husband: I mean I …
MIL: But…
Husband: No she didn’t say that. She said—
MIL: I mean if she pulls from her POSTS for pictures,
Husband: What?
MIL: If she pulls from her posts to get pictures for any kind of video. Gee! There won’t be any of us in there!
Husband: That’s. Whatever. There are plenty of pictures that we have of you. But look. She did a baby naming during Passover for, what, Middle, cause that’s when SIL was going to be in town. That isn’t easy to pull together. At [Synagoge]. Like she’s willing to do the work for that stuff. Look I thought that Eldest’s bat mitzvah was great.
MIL: It was fabulous. I thought it was great. But I also heard her told… tell you that she wasn’t going to do that again.
Husband: What…the?
MIL: The whole big thing, the whole…
Husband: That is not true. Although I mean I’ve said that maybe we should do a joint one so that we don’t have to do one more than once. For a party. You know. But I…we haven’t totally figured that out, so…
MIL: You don’t have to have a big adult party.
Husband: Oh we might n—right, I mean, I would be happy…
MIL: Just have a kids party.
Husband: I would be happy with a kids party. That’s what I’ve told her. So. Anyway I get the grievance about not thanking you.
MIL: E-e-explain…
Husband: And I want to reiterate that she has always wanted to be part of the family.
MIL: interrupts, unintelligible
Husband: She doesn’t want to separate herself she doesn’t want to look at it, like, she doesn’t want you to think that she doesn’t want to be included.
MIL: Well…
Husband: And, like, she’ll make a vegetable. She makes the challah. But, like…
FIL: It’s good challah.
Husband She’ll make some other stuff.
MIL: Husband—
Husband: Yeah the challah’s good. Like, really good. I mean it took some time for her to do that.
MIL: Husband. It’s difficult. And I thank her every time she does it.
Husband: I. Yeah.
MIL: But do you know that we eat at your house two times out of the year?
Husband: Our house is…busy. I mean I have talked to her about inviting you all for Friday night.
MIL: I…I don’t care if we pick up dinner.
Husband: Yeah I mean that, look, I think I think she would like to host more. And I you know. I think she would like to host more. Cause we’ve talked about it.
MIL: Explain to me why, when, whenever some…and you know maybe this is how her family…does it, but, when we have dinners here, when we have Passover…
Husband: Mmm hmm. I know. I know what you’re going to say. She doesn’t clean up. Right?
MIL: Right!
Husband: OK. That is how her family does it. The host cleans up.
MIL: So…when you are with a family where you see everybody grabbing dishes and…
Husband: So, maybe that is a cultural issue we can work through. But her family has her bring stuff every time, she gets, I mean her family has everybody contribute. I know how hard it is for you to pull everything, you know, to do as much as you do for Passover. Like have her do more than a vegetable dish.
MIL: I’m happy to do that.
Husband: Like, like, I think SIL and I talked about, you know, Twinkle and SIL and FIL and me, like, taking more of it off your plate. But you have, like, every time it seems like whenever I ask if you need help, it’s generally, “No I’ve got it.” And then you talk about it being…
MIL: Well, the week before…yeah (bitter laughter)
Husband: Well, that’s when I would help. Unless you want us to take more ownership and do more…look, I need to go. Is it 3:25? I gotta go. Um, like, we are willing to help with Passover or other holidays more. I think she would love that, and I know it’s a difference in the cleanup thing. Cause she never wants you…I know you ultimately try or you do clean up at our house at Break the Fast of whatever, but she never, she doesn’t want that necessarily. Like…
MIL: Well, I…I get that, because I understand that with her family, one of them hosts Thanksgiving, so it’s once a year, and somebody else hosts Christmas, and it’s once a year. And maybe they don’t want or need help cleaning it up.
Husband: Yeah.
MIL: But our family doesn’t do that. We have birthdays. We have every holiday, so…
FIL: Most Fridays.
MIL: So, there’s a big difference between doing it once a year like her mom did for awhile on Fourth of July, and invited her family once a year, to say, “Oh no I can do this when it’s…”
Husband: OK. When it’s more frequent. Sure. OK.
MIL: Does that make sense?
Husband: I think she would be willing to clean up. So…alright, I have to go.
FIL: Does she do windows?
Husband: I need to take…No, no, she doesn’t do windows. I need to go cause I need to run downtown, and I need to get Dog to the vet, so…
MIL: What’s wrong with Dog?
Husband: She just needs her shots before we go to Taylor Swift, so she can be boarded. So. Alright I’ll talk to her more about St. Louis. About the arch.
FIL: And about counseling.
MIL: I want to…
Husband: Yeah, about counseling.
MIL: I need to know what you want to do while we’re there, and what you want to do…
Husband: Yeah.
MIL: Other than that.
Husband: OK.
MIL: Because…
Husband: I mean. It’s a…it’s. OK.
MIL: What ?
Husband: Nothing. It’s just. It is difficult. I mean we need to be able to get past this little thing. Not little thing, but get past this, so she can be fully on board with wanting to go to St. Louis because…it’s hard.
MIL: So she doesn’t want to go. Is that what you’re saying?
Husband: I think that she is…look. I think it’s easier to be in Hometown and then do a day, like, meet in Nearby City with SIL, but I know that we said we would go, and the kids could go. I just think that because I didn’t respond, you know, before that field hockey thing, like she is feeling hurt that nobody responded to the last text. But I’ll talk with about her, like, this. And I, you know, I mean, I think, again, she doesn't want to keep the kids from you. She wants them to be able to go. She wants to be with the kids, so I just need to talk to her.
FIL: Ok
Husband: But in the future. Like we love when you do your grandparents camp. If you want to do a trip out of town, like I don’t know like maybe that should be Fall Break thing or a, um, some other long weekend instead of the two weeks. Although we’re not going to be at Taylor Swift in the future. It’s just something we need to. And I know—
MIL: SIL’s kids—
Husband: It’s hard to find dates with SIL’s kids.
MIL: That’s right. Cause they’re not on fall break at the same time your kids are.
Husband: I know. Right. I know. And, I mean, we’re limited in when we an do it, but it’s also hard for them to be gone. It’s easy to do it here, but it’s special to go out. So, alright, I need to go. This was fun. Pretty much what I expected. You could have said last night, “We want to talk about what’s going on.”
